"Get a Life," Says NetWinner

Ok, I tried to post this on the other thread but it wasn't open for comments anymore so..

The NWC says it's "down for maintainance" but it's not. You can get there by going here:
http://www.netwinnercentral.com/view_category.php?id=6

Once there, the other forums open wide for you. Have fun :)

(continued from: http://www.comparerewards.com/archives/004548.html)

Anonymous said:

"You are all upset because you didn't get something for free? Are you all going to now file a lawsuit against popups for lkying because you wern't the "1,000,000" visitor and you want your $25 gift card to walmart. Get a life."

Okay, but we are all on the same page that NW is a scam, just like those popups? (also, popups are usually include a * or etc and its not backed by a TOS)

And it is not all about the money. It is also about making scam sites go out of business, so that they won't scam others. Or give reputable sites a bad name in the industry.

Anonymous said:
"Your right but lets use math since everyone here is so fond of it. Playing netwinner = possible win. Not playing = no chance for a win

Last time I checked, 1 in 100 is still larger than 0."

0.99999999~ = 1

thus 0.000000000000000~1 = 0

If a company canceled payments. There is no proof they did not rig the wins. See if they were to sort out who cheated and who didn't and pay them and afterwards did the change, that would have been different then doing what they did. At this point, NW is a SCAM period. Thus deserves what it deserves.

Why does it even matter to you if we whine or not?

Thank you Becky. An attempt was made to post the following information earlier but the post failed to go through.

See this article entitled "But is it Gambling?":

http://rose.casinocitytimes.com/articles/997.html

Every jurisdiction has the right to define the three elements of gambling, Consideration, Prize and Chance, any way it sees fit.

1) Consideration usually means players must pay something of value to be eligible to participate.
2) Prize includes not only money, but anything of value.
3) Chance means the outcome is not determined by skill.

Notice that the Californie Supreme Court ruled that "consideration requires paying money for the chance to win."

(repeating the last post in the other thread)

I just received this email from the BBB and thought others should know. I believe this was/is a case of fraud. I was "hired" by netwinner to do a job (IE: play the game and watch/click ads). I did my job without cheating or deception and deserved the "pay" as agreed upon. If any other place had done this they would have been shut down immediately and all assets frozen and or sold and used as payments made to those owed. Netwinner can change their site to all raffles, that is within their rights. However they cannot get away with not paying for services rendered in the past. Please everyone, file with the BBB in charlotte and with the FTC and the Atty General. Thank you Becky for allowing us a place to meet and discuss our options!!

Thank you for contacting the Better Business Bureau. Your complaint was received by the Bureau on May 12, 2008.
Your complaint has been applied to the following business:
Netwinner LLC
1427 South Blvd Ste 200
Charlotte, NC 28203-4261

The case has been reviewed and has now been forwarded to the business for their response. This business has until May 27, 2008 to respond to your complaint. You may contact our office after May 27, 2008 to check the status of your complaint.

We encourage you to use our ONLINE COMPLAINT system to keep up with the progress of this complaint. To view the details of your case please go to the following website address: http://www.charlotte.bbb.org/.

Sincerely,

Hilda T. Cohen
Dispute Resolution Specialist
BBB Complaint Department
hcohen@charlotte.bbb.org

I believe cuffedaddy and several other reps has provided everyone with a glowing example of what kinds of things to look for when joining other money-making ventures. Are they polite and considerate or mean-spirited, rude and condescending? Do they treat others with dignity or do they habitually talk down and insult others?

Put these people's personalities in your memory banks and watch for it when browsing the internet. Shady, crooked thugs are everywhere and scammish programs cannot get off the ground without utilizing the help of self-centered, opportunistic people.

California is probably more liberal than North Carolina though. Many people equate time with great value, so a reasonable arguement could be made that sitting at a computer screen for hours watching advertisements to the enrichment of the company could easily be considered the same as paying money. Not to mention at the time of redemptions, points were worth money, albeit a fraction of a penny, and the same points could be used to enter raffles which made their raffles illegal under North Carolina statutes.

I just posted on NW forum, asking Mike or a staff member to comment on paying bribes to keep some members quiet, I'm sure the post will be deleted or if they do respond I hold no credibility to their answer.

Thank you Becky, for allowing us to vent and exercise our free speech!

ok, I went to the link for the nc dept of justice and couldn't get the pdf to open. I went to their home pg and it gave these directions:
Read these guidelines:

http://www.ncdoj.com/consumerprotection/cp_complaints_instructions.jsp
(it wants a copy of the terms of service- it matters what they were when you cashed in your "reward" NOT NOW it is not retroactive!)

then here is the link for the complaint:
http://www.ncdoj.com/DocumentStreamerClient?directory=Forms/&file=CONSUMER.pdf (pdf version)

other info from their site states:
"About the Consumer Protection Division of Attorney General Roy Cooper
- The Consumer Protection Division of the Attorney General’s Office enforces North
Carolina’s consumer protection laws, which are aimed at preventing unfair or deceptive
trade practices.
- One means we use to learn about such practices is through “consumer complaints” filed
with the office. Thank you for taking the time to complete the complaint form.
What Happens to Your Complaint Once We Receive It?
- Once we receive the complaint form along with supporting documents, it will be reviewed
and in most cases forwarded to the business complained about for response. You will
receive copies of all correspondence. We will work with you and the business to try to
reach a voluntary resolution of your dispute.
- If the complaint falls within the jurisdiction of another local, state or federal agency, we may
refer your complaint to that agency.
- If we handle your complaint and are not successful in negotiating a mutually satisfactory
resolution, then we may suggest that you consider filing an action in Small Claims Court or
consulting with a private attorney. Certain complaints that involve contractual disputes or
disputes of the facts can only be resolved by the courts.
- Although we try to assist all consumers, the fact that we may not be able to directly assist
you does not reflect on the validity of your complaint. Each complaint, however, remains a
part of our cumulative files and may be useful to other consumers. It will help us to monitor
questionable business practices and to determine priorities in our enforcement efforts and
legislative recommendations.
Important Information
- This office does not have the authority to give private legal advice or provide private legal
representation to individual consumers.
- This office generally does not become involved in matters that are scheduled or have
already been heard in a court of law or have already been closed by the agency with proper
jurisdiction.
- When you submit your complaint, please ensure that you include legible COPIES of
supporting documents you may have. Such documents include contracts, invoices,
receipts, correspondence, etc. Please do NOT send originals. If you fail to send existing
supporting documents it may delay processing of your complaint. Faxing your complaint
may also delay processing if the paperwork you send is illegible.
- Documents provided to this office may be public record."
The Phone number of the NC Attorney General Roy Cooper is: (919)716-6000

Sooooo Mod lisa....we should get lives eh? Least I'm still not associating with a company that ripped off thousands of people for Shitloads of cash. Got your prizes tho I bet. Enjoy those big ole bonus points too.

Funny thing is the mods are still doing thier thing over at NWC. Hey how about you get a life lisa and stop fooking with ours.

I DID NOT post that My sister did that. I wasnt gonna say anything but i am not gonna take the blame for something i did not say. Look at the typing it is totally different. I can have her post if you want but i DID NOT!!!!! post that

I am pretty hazy how Netwinner could legally run sweapstakes in the first place. According to NC law http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/North-Carolina/ any lottery using any type of token (including points one would imagine) that isn't run by a registered charity or the state is illegal - you don't need to have paid cash for the ticket directly. One assumes you can get some sort of licence - question is did they?

Not sure about other states but I am fairly certain it's also illegal in Canada to offer prizes for a game of chance (real companies have a legal loophole situation where Canadian winners are required to answer a simple maths question so that is technically is a test of skill and not chance - nothing in the T&C's mention this though so if they did ask one and you got it wrong they would be in legal problems).

Not that these people seem the sort that would bother with the law in the first place but it looks on the surface (I am not a lawyer) to be enough to have all the management of the company criminally prosecuted in NC and possibly in other states & provinces as well.

no, i typed it on her computer without her permission it wasn't her REALLY!!!!

OMG the MY LITTLE SISSTER EXCUSE!!!!11!! TOO RICH!!!!

ok my sister lisa DID NOT POST THAT I did and im sick and tired of you people bashing her I don't volunteer for Netwinner but, I have the right to say what I want to defend her I am sorry Lisa I never thought my posts would get you lynched.

oh well these people will decided what they want I will leave you losers alone.

Reminder: Please remember, this is a family site.

you people are something else

Update, Mike answered my post and said this in response to why some people were paid bribes to keep quiet ahead of others waiting for redemptions:

"I though it was a bad idea and I said so when i learned it was going to happen."

For those of you that would like to see that I am not taking it out of context, feel free to view:
http://www.netwinnercentral.com/view_topic.php?id=4154&forum_id=6

My little sister/brother excusses are the oldest lamest non-believable lines by online gamers. There are whole threads at message boards that make fun of it. Deal with it.

oh well it don't matter if the the owner of this site wants to talk to both me and lisa at the same time ill email her my phone number. so i can prove what i wrote is not her

This is a joke, netwinner.com should fold, or be sued to fold it, at this point i dont even care about my money anymore, just sue the owners so they cannot scam anyone in the future.

NetWinner's ISP was squarely nailed for the first anonymous "Get a life" comment. As for the second, Lisa, whether your fingers typed it, you dictated it, or your dog did it, a person is judged by the company he keeps, and when you associate with liars, nobody's going to give you the benefit of the doubt. Are you still a mod? I think the answer to that question will say more about your character than any other words you or your sister could type. Actions speak louder.

lisa6948146 said:

"I DID NOT post that My sister did that. I wasnt gonna say anything but i am not gonna take the blame for something i did not say. Look at the typing it is totally different. I can have her post if you want but i DID NOT!!!!! post that"

For the sake of argument again, lets say that is true.

So your own sister thinks NetWinner is no different then a popup SCAM...that says something doesn't it?

Becky, I guess starting a new post didn't stop the double comments from being posted :)

I apologize for all this extra work you are doing. But I also thank you profusely for allowing us to continue with our comments/chat between ourselves about what has happened here. It does serve a purpose. It gets out all the hard feeling and allows information to pass through that could help those that have been mistreated and used by NW and the mods. Maybe something good can still come of all this. Not from NW of course..

It's a shame your post was already locked Rich but I really admire how respectful and intelligent you post was it was straight to the point and not aggressive in the least. For the following poster to react the way they did is the same defensiveness we are seeing again and again from people who just will not admit what happened was very wrong and Netwinner should be held accountable for their actions.

Becky, you forgot one possibility. Aliens could have abducted her dog and replaced it with a pod pet that typed the words...do I hear x-files music playing in the background??? LOL

Thank you to "Yeah Rich". I thought it was funny how quickly it was locked. On a positive note, I just completed my first term back in college with an A in composition so I guess it has already paid off if I was able to respectfully make a point in the NW forum lol

I will give her the benifit of the doubt, sure its her sister, but if its your computer, you are responsable for whats its used for.

Thanks for showing true colours for us Becky..
My sister did it..Geez I(and just about ANYONE who has more than one kid)have heard That line wayyyyyyyy too many times.And it usually came out of the mouth of a young child who got Caught.
Personally I Have a job..more than one in fact.I just happen to have times during the year(seasonal work) that I am not working fulltime.
But no matter MY Time is Always worth something..time taken away watching Ads so that Netwinner could make MORE money was supposed to be in return for CASH..Not raffle tickets..period.
Now I am curious to see how this drama unfolds.I (Like Canuck) am in Canada so my voice would not be heard in the States BUT I Am looking into what avenues we have.

I am still trying to figure out who I insulted?

Another thing, netwinner should change to a raffle only site if they arent making money, but they should honor all cashout requests from before, and then say "after May XX" no more cashouts will be accepted.

I have a few things to say about the whole Nloser situation.
1. i find it absolutely disgusting that nloser mods are coming here and trying to defend nloser still, and how they are posting degrading comments to us players about getting a job, for all you mods, do you know what each and every one of us do for a living, nope, didnt think so, so shut your pie hole

2. I was one of the few who got a call and their ecard and yes i was told to keep the conversation quiet however i WASNT told anything in detail, just that nloser was going to make changes thats it, Im beyond pissed that only a few of us received our winnings, I for the life of me cant figure out why they would pay some of us and not all, I also can tell you that even though i was one of the biggest gripers on the forum, i never once contacted nloser about it, just bitched up a storm on the forum, so to be honest, i dont know why i got mine, (though i did cash out nov 6)
Some im sure had in depth conversations with matt and were told more details and im sure there are some like me who didnt ...

My gawd, this is better than any soap opera I could watch while sitting on my lazy a$$(as some of the mods would call it) eating bon-bons.

If your a Netwinner employe stay atay there and chat with your players not here cuffedaddy

Oh lord! Not you again. Please stay with your buddies at NW Cuffdaddy/cufdaddy/cuffedaddy..whoever you are. Don't you have better things to do today? Like ban accounts and lock people out of the forum? Or maybe defend NW for all of this? Or, perhaps you should be over there saying "You will get paid. You will get paid" over and over again in the mirror so it looks convincing?

Okay Rich posted this

Rich said:
Update, Mike answered my post and said this in response to why some people were paid bribes to keep quiet ahead of others waiting for redemptions:

"I though it was a bad idea and I said so when i learned it was going to happen."

For those of you that would like to see that I am not taking it out of context, feel free to view:
http://www.netwinnercentral.com/view_topic.php?id=4154&forum_id=6

I did see this response of Mike's and was kinda shocked how Mike didn't even try to deny it. Now if you go look Mike changed his answer in the post I guess he realized that he really goofed by answering that way!! Gosh I wish I had taken a screen shot of that to prove it.

If you see the response counts on the posts here changing, it's because I'm deleting duplicate posts, not posts I don't like... like at some other places, ahem.

If you get an error after submitting a comment, please reload the page to see if it posted before resubmitting; thanks! And my apologies for the problems.

Mike just posted the new Spin Report -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIIPtoe4Pto

They disabled text comments for the video, of course. But apparently you can still post a video response. Does anyone who has a video camera want to try? Unfortunately I do not have a video camera or I'd do it. You could direct folks here to show them what Netwinner is really all about.

OMG you're right! Did anyone think to get a SS of him basically admitting it? Crap!

I cannot believe they have the cojones to post another spin report. And that the beginning of the video still says "You Play, We Pay" Lying sacks of #@#&!

I was one of the ones who got paid. I know I voiced gripes on the forums. I recevied a call from one of the yahoos there at Netwinner. I can't remember which one called me but I am kicking myself that I didn't pick up. I received a $50 ecount card that I cashed out on March 5th. I got the card on May 9th. It tuely is rotten what they did to everyone nd plan on helping all in anyway I can.

Alright you guys, who let one?

Chuffdaddy said:
I am still trying to figure out who I insulted?

Oh - nevermind.

They posted the spin report, and blocked comments. Geez!

Good ole MJP...running around like a chicken with his head cut off trying to delete posts that don't agree with their "new model"...LOL

They also still haven't changed the video when you first go to their site. After the Exxon card page, it shows the games and says "No Scamming!" HA! That's rich! Also still says you can redeem for points and prizes. Sure you can. You won't get the stuff, but you can redeem any time you like.

Don't worry, I do have a screenshot of Mike's original answer on the forum from where he basically admitted they paid bribes. It will be very useful when I submit my formal complaint to the N.C. Dept. of Justice, and possibly for court if it goes that far.

Very smart Rich :)

Maybe his little brother wrote that, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Easily found in a yahoo netwinner group.

Bobt1956 yahoo id is: jrtemp1956@yahoo.com, he is on Yahoo Msg. right now, and he lists his occ. as a Systems Analyst.
BobT Please tell us about Patience and Persistence Pays!!!

MJP is now living in a fantasy world...
http://www.netwinnercentral.com/view_topic.php?id=4126&forum_id=6&jump_to=145205#p145205

Said that all this is just fantasy...

Hey Cuffedaddy! Who's your Daddy?!?!

i was in that thread a few minutes ago where he said he was sorry that happend..actually his response to rich was I am sorry this happened with prizes, but there is nothing I can do now. When the thread continued to question him about people getting paid for hush. he posted that the thread served no purpose and closed the posting to it. I went to the gripers thread and asked him this:

i would like to know why everytime mjp doesnt like what is being said in one of his threads as in the thread would like to know the company's response thread..it is closed when anyone mentions the truth about what was done about paying some players and not others ??

Is there some underlying secret or what?? Everyone already knows about the payoffs to players its all over the net..not only here !!

his response to me was: ShansGram
Member,

If you are trying to run us into the ground, no you can not use our tools to do so.

How can I help you?

i told him: i dont want anything mjp i was just reading thru the threads and was at that thread where the information was being discussed on some people receiving phone calls and being paid their prizes or at least part of them if they didnt talk about receiving them trying to form an opinion on your answer to them..and you said it served no purpose and closed the thread. So I guess my question was answered when you said that you were sorry about all of that when people were paid thru those phone calls. I would like to be paid just like everyone else..so I guess I am trying to figure out what they did that I havents so I can be paid too !!

As of this minute ..I have not received a reply back from him.

I just wonder how he thinks asking simple questions is running netwinner into the ground..I think they pretty much did that themselves.
As far as their advertisers are concerned..when you go to one of their sites there has always been streaming ads playing..I have gone to see if any of the sites are still working and funny thing I have found today..THERE ARE NO STREAMING ADS..what does this mean?? in my very humble opinion..I think Netwinner is losing ground with their affiliates.

I have requested a complaint form from the North Carolina Attorney General's Office as suggested and when I receive it I will follow thru with my complaint. I have also registered a complaint with the North Caroline BBB (Piedmont Area) and will continue to follow thru with it. I probably will never see my winnings but if it helps to rid a fraudulant company from the Net..I will feel like something good has come from all of this..Good Luck to everyone with whatever your endevours are.

Thecommittee wishes to thank Becky profusely for being such a kind and generous host and for allowing us ragmuffins to come in and mess up her house, so to speak. We'll help with the dishes later and uh, sorry 'bout the broken coffee table, the shattered mirror and that funny looking lamp that says Tiffany underneath.

I just read pages of the netwinner fulfillment topic, all the answers from the mods saying "don't worry you will be paid" with the stupid smilies are removed. I only read about ten pages, couldn't stand to read the rest.

I asked Netweinner if I could exchange the points for toilet paper and then when I looked it was erased?

"I have to say that you all seriously need to get a job. you spend all day long posting and complaining. Do any of you losers have jobs apparently not if your all here complaining about cash. It only takes a foot in front of another to get your a$$ away from your computer and get a job and get a paycheck."

I had to respond to the above "idiot" who posted this. I, myself do not post and complain all day long. I don't have a job bec I am retired/disabled. In the better NW days, it was fun to play in the contests and also win points from the game for a giftcard/ecount card to give away to friends or family. It has nothing to do about being a loser or jobless, etc. I think YOU may be soon talking about yourself..because if you are a NW employee......you WILL soon be in the employment line and I am a firm believer in " what goes around...comes around. Remember that!

Mike at NWC just posted about how the mods don't derserve what's happening and please lay off them and take it out on me cry cry cry. Meanwhile deleating posts furiously

Aaron,

Check out my response to Mike (while it lasts) on his attempt to get people to respect the moderators.

yep, I posted a reply to that thread that those mods(and their sisters!!) have been over here slamming and name-calling and telling us to get real jobs. It was deleted before I even refreshed the page.

I was right, your post was gone before my reply was even sent

Me thinks me is about to get banned at NW LOL

They tell us to leave the mods alone. I for one have not said anything about any of the mods. But they want us to leave them alone while cuffdaddy comes in here and calls Us whiners because we don't like cjheating liars.

well I filed my complaint with the BBB.. I hope others are doing the same. It's not about the money anymore...it's just not.

Rich, I think I'm on my way too! hee hee. I've had a couple posts deleted today.... woohoooo.

I do of course mean cheating.

I would llke to ask annonymous a question?? Are you bi-polar or something?? why do you keep telling people to get a job and posting nasty comments to people. You have been here all day posting negative comments on one hand and on the other you sound like you are all for what netwinner has done?? So what is it annonymous?? Do you think this is right?? or do you think Netwinner has scammed everyone?

If you are still undecided maybe you need to take a chill pill or do what you keep telling everyone else to do..GET A JOB AND GET YOUR A$$ AWAY FROM YOUR COMPUTER !!

Yea he said we were a "small group" yea right.

I also filed a complaint with the BBB

In one of the post in the forum the great leader posted to contact support@netwinner.com...which I did and will do again - but this is their lame response - I am very glad I did tho - I will go back to the BBB, pull up my case file and add this as their response...I did however CC a copy to the BBB already but I am adding this as well:

Dear Brenda,



Thank you for contacting Netwinner Customer Support.We are sorry but at this time we are unable to
redeem points for cash. This has been done in order to cut back on the large amounts of fraud and
liability we have been facing. We are very sorry but we would like to apologize by returning double
the points you used in making your transaction. We hope to be able to reinstate these cards at a later
time but as of right now we are no longer able to do so. If you had an instant win or prize drawing
please reply to this email with your username and the amount of the prize.
Again we apologize for the trouble we have caused you.

Regards,
Customer Support, Netwinner

What a bunch of bull!

I think people need to spend their time complaining to the BBB and the other appropriate places instead of saying nasty things about the mods. It is the NW owners/head honchos that are responsible- beat on them! I have stopped playing and am very disappointed it has came to this. Shame on the NW owners.

Mods can quit anytime, even come here and say they have, maybe even spill some beans.....but thoose big point bonuses must be huge!!!

Count me as another former player who contact the BBB -- makes you feel at least a little better =)

May 13, 2008 2:54 PM
Anonymous said:

"I have to say that you all seriously need to get a job. you spend all day long posting and complaining. Do any of you losers have jobs apparently not if your all here complaining about cash. It only takes a foot in front of another to get your a$$ away from your computer and get a job and get a paycheck."

I would like to respond to this as well:

My 89 year old mother has alzeheimers. She requires 24/7 care. I have elected to stay at home and care for her. This is my job. I have also served in the US Air Force for 8 years and am retired from the US Postal Serivce. If you THINK for one minute that your above post is at anything more than a 2 years old response than you might need to rethink what you post. One day something is going to come your way, and I want you to remember what you have said to others in your post.

I agree with what you just said Aaron.

For obvious reasons I can't say who I am, but I got big news for Netwinner - thanks to my son's psychotic ex-girlfriend, my phone is currently recording all calls, including the one to accept money to be quiet...oh and directing me to connectingmoms for a new Netwinner contest.com -- I can't wait for the Spin report from prison!

ughhhh..this is getting worse. I really hope the NW owners/fatcats get arrested and pay everyone they cheated.

MJP: I just banned two people. I do not want to do this. I do not and will not ban people for complaining or even for slamming us. If they stay here all day everyday and do just that, or flood the forum, you are gone.

Sounds like he's getting upset lol

Oh my no, I was baned at NWC. Whatever will I do?!?! Those of you who still have acess there keep drilling them till they actually answer some those pertinant questions.

If he "does not and will not ban people for complaining, etc" then why did he just do it?

This is what Mike just posted:

I just banned two people. I do not want to do this. I do not and will not ban people for complaining or even for slamming us. If they stay here all day everyday and do just that, or flood the forum, you are gone.

He is such an idiot. I never have believed anything he has said and never will. I think he is the biggest liar on their.

ShansGram, the "get a job" post you're referring to was posted from the same IP address as one of the forum mods. She hasn't posted it over and over -- people are just quoting it in order to reply more directly to the commenter.

The other "get a job" post came from NetWinner's IP address, so it wasn't a volunteer mod, but an actual NW employee. Me thinks they ought to take their own advice.

Anybody think Chad and Anthony looked a little shaken in the latest Spin Report? They said they didn't know they had to work that day, something like that. I bet it was more like, "OMG, NW is doing WHAT to its members? And we're associated with these guys?" Friday was the day mjp says he found out about the changes. I imagine they were told then, too.

Those fancy frozen coffee drinks are pretty expensive...Chad and Anthony must be paid pretty well.

Who's going to do a video response to the Spin Report? Anyone?

Well now I can't stop getting E-mail from reply posts from NWC and I can't log in to stop it, guess they get the spam button.

Dang, I haven't been banned yet? And I called them criminals. What did ya'll do that was so much worse lol

Yea Becky, they blamed their "shakiness" on the iced coffee's they were drinking. Ha!

I guess I posted too much and too articulately for him to handle.

Too articulately? But according to Mike he is a journalist, you'd think he could handle words over 3 letters long.

BECKY CAN YOU PLEASE EMAIL, ID LIKE SOME INFO

always thought mjp65 had bad language/spelling. Could not understand why NW hired him. Oh and yes, quite rude as well.

Yes! Finally they fall flat on their faces.. I tried to warn everyone that NetWinner was a scam over 4 months ago. When Banko was released as beta I was ripped off a couple of times (once being the Jackpot). So I decompiled the flash game and discovered compelling evidence that the games are rigged.

But why rig the games? Well if they can control when you win and how much you win then they can manage how much they give out and how much they profit (Not a bad thing). But they were advertising their site and their games as a game of chance with a set percentage of winning. If they control who wins when they win and how much they win then that percentage and their claims of being a game of chance in not true at all.

I called it even before it happened, they got rid of cash prizes all together and have now made your chances of winning even slimmer, while those dumb enough to waste their time is racking in some serious revenue money for them..

Check out my blog for more.. http://isitrigged.wordpress.com

PS I have also received the same comments on my blog from NetWinner as well, I never approve them just as they always removed my negative comments on their site.

Their comments were never anything disproving my finds or even disclaiming my finds just their same ol' "Get a Life" line.

I have also got a comment from that lisa girl and her husband. Her husbands was pretty interesting. He said that his wife and several other of the mods were selling users information to third party companies, thus violating NetWinner's "Terms of Service" policy.

Someone asked in the previous entry for a list of current mods. Since that thread is now closed due to the number of responses causing problems with the software, I'll post it here. Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxHm7BoVV-A

no need to bash the mods! Lay it off! I no longer play for your information- and my anger/disappointment is towards the NW honchos..not the mods for goodness sake! Why can't some people understand that?

I know my opinion is as valuable as all those useless points that were "traded"

to us -- without our knowledge prior to the trade , but I'm going to exptess it anyway.
In my unasked for opinion, we were lied to because we were promise something and given something else. Only cheaters and liars do this.
If you could not follow through with your promises, you should never have made them in the first place. I really feel like I have been violated.

Thank you for using the Better Business Bureau's Online Complaint System.
Your complaint has been assigned case # 374557.
Correspondence regarding this complaint will be emailed to : happy_vegan_ebionite@praiseyah.com
Please print a copy of this for your records.

Hi,

I received an email from a friend about this situation. You're all so very thorough and helpful with the necessary links, that I was easily able to make the complaint.

I went the route of using confirmation emails as well as false revenue generated by advertisers.

I urge all of you to file complaints if you haven't already. The process is very simple and only took about ten minutes of my time.

If any of you reported what you received from Netwinner as income on your taxes last year, it would also be a good idea to file a non-receipt of a 1099 complaint against Netwinner regardless of amount claimed. Companies are not required to send out these forms under normal circumstances for amounts paid per individual that are less than $600. However, if Netwinner claimed our previous payments as either operating expenses or as a loss (and we all know they did, don't we?) then they'll need to substantiate that expense or loss to the IRS. It usually takes three years for that sort of red flag to create an audit situation for companies who don't substantiate this deduction. But you can make it happen sooner by filing that IRS complaint if you reported your Netwinner winnings as income and received no form.

Here is a copy of the complaint I sent to the Charlotte BBB via their website, including confirmation emails as proof of promised payment:

As a member of the Netwinner site, I played for points toward gift cards and redeemed those points on various dates throughout 2007 and 2008. I received confirmation emails and promises of payment via Netwinner's forum and through email. Here are confirmation emails which confirm that I was promised payment but have not received. I have removed my name and email address here but included them in the complaint:

From: NetWinner [Add to Address Book]
To: xxx
Subject: Confirm Prize Destination
Date: Nov 6, 2007 3:29 PM
Dear xxx

This email serves to confirm that you requested to have your prize

Ecount Cash ($50)

delivered to the following address:

If this information is correct, please:
1. Log into your NetWinner.com account.
2. Go to the MyAccount page
3. Open the Prizes tab and select your prize (Ecount Cash ($50))
4. Use the following code to confirm: xxx

--NetWinner Team

----------------------------------------

From: No Reply [Add to Address Book]
To: xxx
Subject: Confirm Prize Destination
Date: Jan 17, 2008 9:48 PM
Dear xxx

This email serves to confirm that you requested to have your prize

Ecount Cash ($100)

delivered to the following address:

If this information is correct, please:
1. Log into your Prizevillage.com account.
2. Go to the MyAccount page
3. Open the Prizes tab and select your prize (Ecount Cash ($100))
4. Use the following code to confirm: xxx

--NetWinner Team

---------------------------------

From: No Reply [Add to Address Book]
To: xxx
Subject: Confirm Prize Destination
Date: Jan 28, 2008 7:56 PM
Dear xxx

This email serves to confirm that you requested to have your prize

Ecount Cash ($100)

delivered to the following address:

If this information is correct, please:
1. Log into your www.wiiarcade.com Play Free Wii Flash Games account.
2. Go to the MyAccount page
3. Open the Prizes tab and select your prize (Ecount Cash ($100))
4. Use the following code to confirm: xxx

--NetWinner Team

---------------------------------------

All told, they owe me $250.00 which I redeemed as proven here and then confirmed in my account with each unique, corresponding confirmation i.d.

I was told repeatedly as many other members have been for the last six months that payment would be forthcoming. To this day I've not received payment.

Yesterday, Netwinner changed it's point system by no longer offering E-Count payments as prizes. They are free to do this via their TOS. However, this does not negate past obligations and that contract we players had with Netwinner should be considered binding because it was in effect at the time of redemption. I feel the company is now in default and it's actions constitute fraud.

Netwinner also promoted false ad traffic generating revenue for themselves by requiring members to click on ads regardless of whether members had any intention of purchasing services. This is false revenue generation which members were not aware of at the time.

I think all of this is easily proven not only by the confirmation emails I've enclosed but if an audit were to be performed by the proper State, Federal and/or local agencies.

Not only should Netwinner pay it's members what we are owed, but they should also be forced to return revenue to it's advertisers received by forcing members to click on ads when we had no idea this was unethical for the company to ask of us.

Thank you.

Being a bonehead sometimes, I forgot to mention that I filed the above claim with the Charlotte, NC BBB, lol. Sorry about that!

I am in the process of filing the complaint on the NC BBB site but I have two address choices. Does anyone know the correct NW address?? I am making myself dizzy trying to scroll up and find the address. thanks

Use the suite 200 one. It's where most of the corresponding complaints have already been filed. :)

thank you!

thank you! I am having a hard time deciding on which catagory to pick. Product??

I'm still reading every comment from the previous entry on this, lol. But I do want to show that complaints are being filed at a dizzying rate (Yay us!) and that I've added my complaint to that number. You all are doing a great job of coordinating these efforts and working together! :) Keep it up! :)

If you are looking for a new legit site, jump on over to moola.com
Great business strategy, and no competition for the type of site they have.

The site starts you off with a penny, and you play games to make more money. You can also make money by completing offers, or shopping at places you may already shop at.

If you'd like an invite to join, just email me at OutSider81@aol.com

Take care, and sorry to hear about all these problems with Netwinner....

i hate the new changes and it does suck
but you can come here and run your mouth and thats fine thats your choice to do so but why not use your netwinner name and let ev1 know who you are .. like you all said noone is getting paid anymore so why hide you have nothing left to lose

You're most welcome Anon! :)

gottaluvpugs- CHANGES ? you mean "dirty business" ??

" gottalovepugs said:

i hate the new changes and it does suck
but you can come here and run your mouth and thats fine thats your choice to do so but why not use your netwinner name and let ev1 know who you are .. like you all said noone is getting paid anymore so why hide you have nothing left to lose
"

Do you eat with that hostile and accusatory mouth? No one has to substantiate any of their reasoning to you here. This is a free and open forum and these people have been hurt enough. If you don't like it this conversation format, you are ofcourse free to say so. But why insist on torturing yourself by visiting a site you do not like? As Netwinner would say, "If you don't like it, don't post!"

gottaluvpugs- oh yes we do. Next thing you know- NW will freeze the points we still have for the lousy raffles

Feeling sorry for gottalovebullsh*t right about now. How delusional!

"I wanted to share with you one of the comments left on my blog just minutes ago. "Get a life," it said. Here's the comment and please note the IP address from which it was left: http://www.comparerewards.com/getalife.jpg

I plugged in that IP address to find out where the comment originated from, and guess who left it?: http://www.comparerewards.com/netwinnercomment.jpg"

Gotta love ip search software, LOL. I'm an avid user myself. Thanks for sharing that. It just proves how Netwinner and it's minions only have an interest in further degrading their members instead of honoring their commitments they made to them. Well done! Thanks for sharing your findings with us as well. :)

"Why does it even matter to you if we whine or not?"

These types of insecurities and blame are par for the course for them. Trust me.

lolol

Hahahaha OWNED!

here is mjp's response to somneone asking why such low points:

I see what you are saying now. We have not been able to make the adjusts yet to complete the change. it will get better.

Thought they denied that the moneywheel was 'tight'?

"I just posted on NW forum, asking Mike or a staff member to comment on paying bribes to keep some members quiet, I'm sure the post will be deleted or if they do respond I hold no credibility to their answer."

This type of extortion is illegal on Netwinner's part. To those who are filing BBB complaints and have had this happen to you, please remember to include and bribes attempts made to you by Netwinner in exchange for requests to be quiet. If you did not accept or accepted your past due payments but did not agree with the conditions of the request, you won't be in any trouble. Netwinner will be though for offering this type of bribery and extortion to you. Keep all written or recorded proof and submit it if you have it with your complaint. You will be fine. They won't though.

OMFG - It will get better????????????????? Good God, haven't we heard that enough????

ughhh,,,,,he keeps saying "it will get better"..and this has been going on for a year,,,,and see where they are now....going downnnnnnnnnnnnhill. I could just kick myself for playing so long

HOW LOW OF THEM TO POST ON HERE saying that crap netwinner shame on you shame shame
plus what is this 40% cheaters grabage
you must put in a code to verify yourself everyone uses this now and no one else has problems with this..so tell me HOW DO YOU CHEAT??

" karen said:

here is mjp's response to somneone asking why such low points:

I see what you are saying now. We have not been able to make the adjusts yet to complete the change. it will get better.

Thought they denied that the moneywheel was 'tight'?"

Good eye! :) Yes they did deny that. Why on earth would they have to make adjustments to something that wasn't a problem? It must be hard for Mike to remember every lie he's told and consequently he makes these obvious mistakes. Oopsy.

What's lost on all of these NetWinner apologists , is that if they truly think it is legal and ethical to retro actively change the terms of the agreement between the site and the members , what on earth makes them think this won't happen again ?

If NetWinner is still losing money next month , but the owners and employees want to gravy train as long as they can ,what will keep them from again changing the terms yet again ? If someone were actually to win the $50,000 prize or jackpot , can you apologists actually believe it would be paid ?

Using your thinking , it would be perfectly ethical for NetWinner to not pay the winnings , based on financial problems or some other excuse . You would hang on and defend them because the forum is so much fun and I made friends there . Please . These people are thieves . Mike is still getting paid . But you are not . And you side with him and the other crooks at NetWinner ? I think you folks need to look in the mirror and have a reality check .

I just want to squeeze his (mike) head, geez...he is in fantasyland

"California is probably more liberal than North Carolina though."

Here's how the jurisdiction game works: California has no juridiction here except as a member of the Federal Government which has ultimate jurisdiction. Secondary jurisdiction is held by North Carolina. Other than that, the State of California is considered an interested party in any action that is taken which acts on behalf of it's members (residents).

SOMEONE ON THE FORUM SAID
no it wasn't bogus call I recieved a call from Matt and recieved 1 of my owed cashouts just yesterday! we tryed to warn people but were told to hush our being paid it was aimed towards us gripers and complainer's I feel horrible having been paid 100 of what was owed to me when so many others got S#*T on

I felt I needed to set the record straight about continuing my participation with Netwinner: I just can't do it; they have betrayed my trust and don't seem to care one whit about loyal players.I don't trust them anymore.

Feel free to read my comments about Netwinner's latest actions on my new Squidoo lens (page) called "Netwinner: We Played - They Flayed". (Just click on my name). (I hope they let me leave this up but I don't know....).

Feel free to leave a comment but please KEEP IT CLEAN!

**Becky, I reposted your post about "what to do" on my Squidoo page -- if this is not OK with you, please e-mail me!! thanks.

"http://www.ncdoj.com/consumerprotection/cp_complaints_instructions.jsp
(it wants a copy of the terms of service- it matters what they were when you cashed in your "reward" NOT NOW it is not retroactive!)"

If you don't have a copy of the old TOS, use your confirmation emails as proof of the contract you entered into Netwinner. Those prize receipts show proof of what was agreeable and acceptable to both sides and is legally binding in this case just as an old copy of the TOS would be.

"Funny thing is the mods are still doing thier thing over at NWC. Hey how about you get a life lisa and stop fooking with ours."

Insecurity, blame and hostility run rampant over there. We should expect it from them here too. Feel sorry for them as it's the only behavior they seem to know. Understanding, empathy and caring for others and just a plain willingness to want to help people are foreign concepts to them. They do what's in their pocket's best interest.

Had a real interesting day ...filed a complaint with BBB and Attorney General ,called various media studios THEN got a call offering "hush hush" money (a portion of what is owed me),and more points added to my account....OH BOY!!!What good points are to me when Im never playing at NW again? Yall shoulda heard how this @sshole was snickering when he said," must be 50,000 people severely pissed at me today" ........I am more pissed today than yesterday now ........I took the "hush hush" money,but I did let him know I just dropped my complaint to the attorney General in the mailbox ..LOL ..(it was a public mailbox that cant be retrieved once dropped) :-) ....He sounded very nervous to say the least,so yall get those complaints in

" lisa6948146 said:

I DID NOT post that My sister did that. I wasnt gonna say anything but i am not gonna take the blame for something i did not say. Look at the typing it is totally different. I can have her post if you want but i DID NOT!!!!! post that
"

Just as I am not posting this reply I suppose. Get a clue lisa. No one's buying your eyelash batting, hair twirling, gum chewing response here girly.

Oh yes, I agree with outsider81 www.Moola.com is a far better and equal opportunity site for all it's members. Better security measures put forth for stability to prevent a situation like "going broke" and not being able to fulfill it's agreement of prizes to it's members how have strenuously earned it.

Also, gottaluvpugs if they did not hide their names NetWinner would try to use that as the reason as to why they will not be receiving their gifts so they can cover their asses in the event of a lawsuit!

"One assumes you can get some sort of licence"

Yes the state does require a license as all states that allow and contests, gambling, lotteries or other games of chance do.

" Anonymous said:

I am pretty hazy how Netwinner could legally run sweapstakes in the first place. According to NC law http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/North-Carolina/ any lottery using any type of token (including points one would imagine) that isn't run by a registered charity or the state is illegal - you don't need to have paid cash for the ticket directly. One assumes you can get some sort of licence - question is did they?

Not sure about other states but I am fairly certain it's also illegal in Canada to offer prizes for a game of chance (real companies have a legal loophole situation where Canadian winners are required to answer a simple maths question so that is technically is a test of skill and not chance - nothing in the T&C's mention this though so if they did ask one and you got it wrong they would be in legal problems).

Not that these people seem the sort that would bother with the law in the first place but it looks on the surface (I am not a lawyer) to be enough to have all the management of the company criminally prosecuted in NC and possibly in other states & provinces as well.
"

Well done investigation! Thanks for the information :)

" lisa's dog said:

no, i typed it on her computer without her permission it wasn't her REALLY!!!!
"

Haaaaaaaaaaa!

SORRY FOR THE CAPS BUT CHECK THIS OUT ---
this is the first post this guy ever made in forum and he was banned from forum by the time i got back this afternoon and read it -

"I'm curious as to why the mods/admins appear to have been paid - when you see there name in the winners list on game site at the left they all have less than 100k points and many only have few hundred - hard to believe since payments only went to some people in November that they havent played or gotten points since before that - hmmmmmmmmmmm"

" getajob said:

ok my sister lisa DID NOT POST THAT I did and im sick and tired of you people bashing her I don't volunteer for Netwinner but, I have the right to say what I want to defend her I am sorry Lisa I never thought my posts would get you lynched.

oh well these people will decided what they want I will leave you losers alone.
"

So your other personality doesn't realize you receive a stipend lisa? You should probably see a professional about that.

" Rich said:

Update, Mike answered my post and said this in response to why some people were paid bribes to keep quiet ahead of others waiting for redemptions:

"I though it was a bad idea and I said so when i learned it was going to happen."

For those of you that would like to see that I am not taking it out of context, feel free to view:
http://www.netwinnercentral.com/view_topic.php?id=4154&forum_id=6
"

Is Mike still trying to pretend he has integrity? I guess he doesn't realize that people are no longer buying what he has to say. Nor do we have much interest other than a good laugh we so richly deserve at this point. Thanks for verifying the hush money payments though Mike. That is much appreciated.

" getajob said:

oh well it don't matter if the the owner of this site wants to talk to both me and lisa at the same time ill email her my phone number. so i can prove what i wrote is not her
"

Perhaps not sitting by the phone and instead seeking professional help would be a better use of that time.

" Becky said:

NetWinner's ISP was squarely nailed for the first anonymous "Get a life" comment. As for the second, Lisa, whether your fingers typed it, you dictated it, or your dog did it, a person is judged by the company he keeps, and when you associate with liars, nobody's going to give you the benefit of the doubt. Are you still a mod? I think the answer to that question will say more about your character than any other words you or your sister could type. Actions speak louder."

And Becky calls BINGO! from the back of the room...

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!

" Anonymous said:

Becky, I guess starting a new post didn't stop the double comments from being posted :)

I apologize for all this extra work you are doing. But I also thank you profusely for allowing us to continue with our comments/chat between ourselves about what has happened here. It does serve a purpose. It gets out all the hard feeling and allows information to pass through that could help those that have been mistreated and used by NW and the mods. Maybe something good can still come of all this. Not from NW of course..
"

From all of the teamwork I see going on here, I'd say quite a bit is being accomplished. :) WTG everyone!

It would be cool to ping the locations of their IP's. I would love to show up at one of these admins or mods door stp and see if they as brave as they act over the internet calling people "losers" and telling them to "get jobs" or "get a life".. It is possible! ;-)

" Yeah Rich said:

It's a shame your post was already locked Rich but I really admire how respectful and intelligent you post was it was straight to the point and not aggressive in the least. For the following poster to react the way they did is the same defensiveness we are seeing again and again from people who just will not admit what happened was very wrong and Netwinner should be held accountable for their actions.
"

You're right ofcourse. It is now as it has always been useless to try to have an honest conversation with any of Netwinner's staff, forum staff or minions. They only spew judgement and smoke and mirrors when it suits their egos or to try to cork a problem instead of solving it.

No one here has to explain their personal employment situation to Netwinner ever. They just make lame exclamations of "get a job!" in the dim hopes of distracting everyone here from the real problem and the task at hand.

Netwinner, you're pathetic to try that tactic on people you've already lied to, lied about and hurt over all. None of us are impressed that you would stoop that low but we do expect it. Thanks for stopping by.

Yesssssss!

"Bobt1956 yahoo id is: jrtemp1956@yahoo.com, he is on Yahoo Msg. right now, and he lists his occ. as a Systems Analyst."

Bob hasn't worked as a systems analyst in years. He told me this himself.

I agree that it is amazing that the majority here are really working towards a common goal..Some are just here for comic relief..and I guess we need that Too!.
I too am grateful to Becky for allowing us to have a space where we Dont have to deal with the "Netford wives" who are still doing the same old same old.."I Wub Netwinner" Garbage..
I feel like giving them a slap upside the head so that the hamster starts running on the wheel again.Not so ironically these are the very people who over the last few months were chanting the "They Will pay" mantra..Oh and Surprise surprise they are now posting about their great "wins" on one of the partner sites..
You know what I Say?BULL! I see this as nothing more than MORE smoke and Mirrors..Imaginary "winners" or even worse Netwinner zombies who will say Anything they can to keep Netwinners cash cow alive.

I agree that it is amazing that the majority here are really working towards a common goal..Some are just here for comic relief..and I guess we need that Too!.
I too am grateful to Becky for allowing us to have a space where we Dont have to deal with the "Netford wives" who are still doing the same old same old.."I Wub Netwinner" Garbage..
I feel like giving them a slap upside the head so that the hamster starts running on the wheel again.Not so ironically these are the very people who over the last few months were chanting the "They Will pay" mantra..Oh and Surprise surprise they are now posting about their great "wins" on one of the