NetWinner "Refunds" Points in Lieu of Payments
Update, 5/13: According to NetWinner's Terms and Conditions, "Your continued use of the Service following the posting of any changes to the terms and conditions contained in this Agreement shall bind You to acceptance of those changes." If you don't agree to the changes, don't play! Asking yourself what to do about this? Please see the bottom of this post and start by contacting the NC Attorney General's office. This will get the issue in front of prosecutors and prompt an investigation into whether NetWinner's actions constituted fraud.
NetWinner emailed members today to tell them they would not be paid for outstanding redemptions. Instead, members' cashouts would be cancelled and the points refunded to their accounts... but they would be doubled. From now on, points are only good for raffle entries.
Sometimes you hate to be right. :(
I'm sorry, y'all. I'm really, TRULY sorry.
In a message to partner sites, NetWinner's Wendy Warner today stated that only about 10% of you would be unhappy with this move. "Some will see it as I do—a great opportunity for most of our players and then you have the 10% that are hard core that will not be happy at all."
Just 10%? Head count, anyone?
Continue Reading if you didn't get the email, or feel free to vent as needed in a Comment.
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Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:36:03 -0400
From: "NetWinner: Official Release"
Subject: Letter from the President
To our loyal Players:
As President & COO, I want to take this opportunity to communicate candidly about the current status of our site and our plans for moving forward in 2008 and beyond.
Since the launch of NetWinner in June of 2006, we have had the pleasure of giving away over $1.5 million in cash and prizes to over 20,000 lucky winners. Over that time, we have worked hard to provide new features, new ways to win, and improve our Players� experience.
Unfortunately, we have also spent much of our last two years attempting to improve how we police fraudulent users who not only defraud us, but also defraud all of our honest Players. Our most recent statistics show that over 40% of Players redeeming for prizes have violated our Terms of Service sometime before redemption. We are truly saddened that such a significant number of fraudulent users have impacted our legitimate Player�s winnings and our business at these levels.
During the last six months, we have also experienced ongoing technical and business issues with our outsourced fulfillment provider of debit cards.
These two major issues have become virtually insurmountable in ensuring the prompt fulfillment of prizes. As a result, we have been forced to temporarily suspend our debit card redemption option as we pursue new options for points and prize redemptions.
But more importantly, like many other businesses and households, we have also been experiencing the challenges of the recent economic downturn. Together with the tightening of credit markets, this has significantly affected our revenue and our ability to take on additional debt required to continue to grow our business.
These realities forced our management team and investors to make difficult choices. We had two options: shut the company down, or make adjustments to our business model that would allow us to move forward in new ways � with new games, new prizes, and new ways to win. The second option would allow Players to continue to have opportunities to win cash and prizes, and for us to remain a destination site for casual gamers on the Web.
We have chosen to make necessary changes and move forward in new ways. But this choice is not without consequences � both to our Players and to our company. We are acutely aware that these changes may be unpopular with our Players and may even cause some Players to stop playing our games. For that I apologize personally.
But for thousands and thousands of others, we will remain one of the most lucrative casual game sites on the Internet, continuing to give away over $50,000 in prizes every month.
Our new model will no longer be a �rewards� based model, as many have come to perceive it. That is, time spent on our site is not directly correlated with an amount of money �earned�. As a casual game site, our model will be more in line with other popular casual game sites. Players can earn instant cash wins as always and points may be redeemed for cash and prize drawings on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis. This levels the playing field for all our Players and substantially limits the ability of fraudulent users to convert points into cash.
To best address the current fraud and operational challenges I�ve outlined, all existing redemption points for debit cards that have not been fulfilled will be doubled and refunded into each Player�s account. For example, if an individual redeemed 25,000 points toward a debit card, 50,000 points will be deposited back into their account. These can now be redeemed for entries into any of our growing list of cash and prize drawings.
By mitigating the amount of fraud we experience, we have revisited our policies that were designed and deployed to reduce that fraud. We are now able to dramatically increase and vary the number of daily plays allowed on our games and provide more frequent multipliers and other new promotions with even more new ways to win.
We have also modified our fulfillment policy moving forward. All cash daily drawings will be fulfilled in 30 days or less, and all other prizes, including prize drawings and instant cash wins, will be fulfilled within 60 days. We recognize that the delays that occurred in the past were a major source of frustration for our Players.
As we have been making strategic decisions and directions changes at our headquarters, we have not broadly disseminated them with all of our staff and volunteer moderators for confidential business reasons. Please understand that our support staff performed as best they could with the information provided them. Realizing that we have not performed as best we could in supporting our Players� requests, we have put new customer support processes and staff in place to improve our relationships with our Players. Our staff can be reached during normal business hours in the Eastern Time Zone at support@netwinner.com.
We have made these decisions for the benefit of all our Players as well as the employees and partners of our company. Companies must constantly adapt and evolve as operating conditions change. It was necessary for us to do the same.
It is our hope that these changes will create a more fair and exciting casual game environment for our existing and future Players who come to our site. I speak for our entire staff when I send my thanks to all our loyal Players for their commitment and support.
Best regards,
S. Allen Dean
President & COO
We hope you enjoyed receiving this email, but if you no longer wish to receive our emails please click here. NetWinner, LLC 1427 South Blvd. Suite 200 Charlotte, NC 28203
[Sad laugh at the "we hoped you enjoyed receiving this email..." Yeah, right.]
Date: May 12, 2008 3:08 PM
I played NW in the beginning but I never in a MILLION yrs thought that it would end like this. I am also disgusted and shocked by the way NW is handling this. If they still have any members after this (which I doubt) they would have to do something BIG to make it up to them but I feel like even then it's too little too late. I hope that each and every member of NW get their gift cards and other prizes.Thank you Becky for posting this info about NW too. :)
Date: May 12, 2008 3:13 PM
Thanks for posting. I heard about this on Gather.com but hadn't received the email and was curious to read the press release.
Date: May 12, 2008 3:18 PM
They lied to and cheated us all. I find this abhorent! This was self serving and a totally incomprehensible treatment of their own clientele. If a retail business did this to their customers and/or clientele they would be sued, shut down immediately and held responsible for all past due debts!
Date: May 12, 2008 3:21 PM
Go figure! Netwinner gave us all the shaft in the end! well guess who wont be going there any more! ME!
Date: May 12, 2008 3:22 PM
That little technicality of Netwinner showing payments as "fulfilled" allows them to be sued. Take a screenshot of your account page before that proof is gone. The payments were not fulfilled. Time for Netwinner to go bye bye.
Date: May 12, 2008 3:22 PM
I knew this was going to happen. You predicted it but I kept playing just in case. i'm not even bothering to cash in my points for raffles, why bother?
I can't log into the netwinner message board, too much activity going on there. My last words are to the mods.......Netwinner pays, oh really?
Date: May 12, 2008 3:23 PM
That little technicality of Netwinner showing payments as "fulfilled" allows them to be sued. Take a screenshot of your account page before that proof is gone. The payments were not fulfilled. Time for Netwinner to go bye bye.
Date: May 12, 2008 3:26 PM
I heard about this earlier this morning and am so PO'd, I'm beside myself. I looked at my account and they removed all the redemptions I had and replaced them with points. They have closed down thier forum. Cann't understand why, can you? As far as the e-mail is concerned, they didn't even have the bananas to send me one.
It', unfortunately, like I said that this is/was a pyramid scheme and now they are trying to back away without going to jail.
I, for one, am going to file with the BBB and any other agency that will let me. Maybe it won't get my money, but maybe it will get them one more step into bankruptcy and, hopefully, a couple of jail terms. Therefore, if anyone has got an address, phone number and URL #, please post it so that I can complete the necessary forms ( Becky, maybe you could help here).
As far as only 10% of the members being upset, especially in light of the fact that they have lied to the membership for more than 6 months, I think thatpercentage is highly under valued. The percentage is going to be closer to 95%.
Date: May 12, 2008 3:26 PM
i agree with you all.i cant believe they did this but then again i can as its been going downhill for quite some time but they should still send people what they owe them.we trusted them and they let us down.
Date: May 12, 2008 3:30 PM
Actually, internet fraud is the jurisdiction of the feds. Call the Charlotte, NC police department to make a complaint. If the police keep getting calls about Netwinner's fraud, they'll pass on the information to the feds who will investigate.
Better start shredding stuff now Netwinner.
Date: May 12, 2008 3:32 PM
Does anybody know, do we have any recourse? Can they do this and get way with it? I'm not too shocked by it all but my mother who has been a Netwinner addict is going to find this very disturbing for they owe her close to $500+ .
Date: May 12, 2008 3:32 PM
Check out the comments for episode eight of the spin report on youtube. Yeah I think I'll do that.
Date: May 12, 2008 3:32 PM
Here is there numbers but I am sure they will not be answering!!
What a rip off!!
Steve Goldberg, Director of Communications
704-904-8849; steve.goldberg@netwinner.com or
Matt Coapman, V.P. of Business Development
980-253-3301; matt.coapman@netwinner.com
Date: May 12, 2008 3:37 PM
You forgot one: 716 465 3571 Mike
Date: May 12, 2008 3:38 PM
Thank you Becky for posting this .I didnt recieve an email either & had no idea what was going on.I heard this lie 6 months ago and would be stupid to continue to play "their game":We have also modified our fulfillment policy moving forward. All cash daily drawings will be fulfilled in 30 days or less, and all other prizes, including prize drawings and instant cash wins, will be fulfilled within 60 days. We recognize that the delays that occurred in the past were a major source of frustration for our Players...............OH and if it takes just a little longer for " blah , blah , blah " , please be a little more patient and KNOW you WILL get your prize !!
Date: May 12, 2008 3:39 PM
Another one: 704 654 0726 Arion
Date: May 12, 2008 3:40 PM
whats wrong with net winner. you losers turn on the computer and play for 24 hours a day 365 days a year and dont have jobs. you complain about a 25 dollar gift card. go get a job and earn a living. NETWINNER RULES
Date: May 12, 2008 3:42 PM
On 5/5/08, Netwinner's Matt Coapman telephoned me personally to inform me that I was number 75 on a list of 500 people to receive payouts. He told me to expect the redemption dated for early January for $100.00 within 48 hours.
He then asked if I would do him a couple of favors. One was to notify him at "support@netwinner.com" when I received the reload, and two was that I not mention the phone call to anyone. I mentioned the term "hush money" and he claimed that it was nothing of the sort, that they owed it to me anyway.
I told him that I would like an assurance that ALL past due accounts would be paid soon and he informed me that they were working on that. When I expressed the fact that I was unwilling to continue being a member, he suggested two options, either take the $100.00 and stay active or take the entire amount owed, which was $200.00 and then he would de-activate my account. I chose the latter. I never received the redemptions.
There should be enough people now to file a blizzard of complaints with the FTC, the DOJ and the local BBB to get this scam shut down once and for all. And don't think for a minute I'm going away quietly. I'll post all over the internet every chance I get to let people know exactly what's happened here.
Date: May 12, 2008 3:42 PM
Anonymous said:
You forgot one: 716 465 3571 Mike
Another one: 704 654 0726 Arion
I'm gonna call! Thanks!
Date: May 12, 2008 3:45 PM
When you screw people over Netwinner, it will come back to bite you in the ass. Glad I could help by posting those numbers. They deserve everything that's coming to them. Let them know how you feel! They so deserve to hear it.
Date: May 12, 2008 3:47 PM
I started playing Netwinner in 2006. It was a wonderful place to go and spend some free time and win some money. This trend that has been developing over the past few months started me thinking that before long they would pull something like this. By taking away the cash rewards, they have become like every other scam site out there. Just how many people do you know who REALLY win drawings on a regular basis? I personally don't know any. I DO know that I resent my $100 that was yet to be fulfilled being taken away with NO NOTICE. I didn't get an email so I thank you for posting it here. This is definitely a way for them to keep money in their pockets. Yeah, I am certainly going to drop 800 points on ONE entry into a drawing. LOL I am in agreement with those of you who feel the 10 percent unhappy members is a definite UNDERSTATEMENT! Do you suppose the advertisers will still want to spend their money on a site with little to no traffic? I suppose we all need to stay tuned to see what develops. Needless to say, I will not be playing their games anymore, and as for my points, they can keep those too, since they decided to steal my money from me.
Date: May 12, 2008 3:49 PM
I do believe it is against the law to post other peoples personal telephone numbers like that in hopes of flooding them with calls. Some of these numbers are there homes...... AND I really hope that Becky knows this and will remove them.
I too think Netwinner did wrong.. but no need to hurt people that did not make the decision.
Date: May 12, 2008 3:51 PM
This trend of ill treatment of players has long been evident on the forums. Ordering players around when forum staff doesn't like someone's opinion doesn't fit with the term "moderate" very well does it? Neither does the truth. Admin and mods knew this was coming. It's great that all of the useless extra points they got for keeping you quiet are now useless for them too. Let's see how loyal the forum Nazis are now.
Date: May 12, 2008 3:53 PM
It's not against the law to reprint what the owners of those numbers have posted elsewhere on the internet. If they put their own numbers on the internet and they've been copied and pasted here, it's their own fault.
Date: May 12, 2008 3:56 PM
Take a deep breath, y'all.
Don't post home numbers, please. Their spouse and kids shouldn't be harassed because of their business decisions.
If they posted their business numbers publically...I have no problem with that.
Date: May 12, 2008 3:57 PM
I played off and on for a year and was not to happy to see that I won't be getting the ecount card I cashed out for.
I only cashed out for $175.00 for the whole year and one of the cash outs was for a $100.00 ecount card. I am not a looser who turns on my computer and plays 24 hours a day as was mentioned in an earlier post. There are people who are not able to work due to failing health. I happen to be disabled and can't work anymore due to numerous health problems.
I knew this would happen it always does when sites offer gift cards I remember a program called beenz years ago that program was abused so much it went under. I realize there were people who cheated on netwinner but it is unfair to people who played and watched the ads and clicked on them to loose their prizes but that is life.
I had stopped playing a few months ago because I had a feeling this was going to happen. I have played games online where you can cash in points for entries for prizes and I enjoyed the games. If netwinner is only going to offer points that can be cashed in for entries for a chance to win a prize the least they can do is offer games that are fun to play instead of that dumb wheel or banko at least if they offered a variety of games that would make the site fun to play at.
Date: May 12, 2008 3:58 PM
A few numbers posted are personal ones.... you might want to have them removed....
Date: May 12, 2008 4:02 PM
STOP quit whinning already no matter how much you wine and complain its not gonna chnage how they are doing things. One more thing giving out numbers???? get a damn life grow the heck up already you all over 18 act like it
Date: May 12, 2008 4:03 PM
Nah I say let them stay. They put their own information on the internet like that, they should be left up.
Date: May 12, 2008 4:03 PM
What are they going to say..... if they call.... Hello.. I dont like the change.. put it back.. It does no good. What is done is done.
Date: May 12, 2008 4:06 PM
Don't you love it that Netwinner people can't have a civil disagreement and have to start with the name calling? Me either. I'm not surprised to see them flocking here to further degrade players because it worked so well for them there. Guess what Netwinner? You have no control of what goes on outside your own message board. And if you've decided not to pay people, they're not gonna shut up and do as you tell them anymore. You take away our winnings, we now have the power. It's about time!
Date: May 12, 2008 4:09 PM
Well, NW just not only shot themselves in the foot, but in the head and wallet as well, STUPID STUPID decision. I was owed $450. There are other games that have much more fun games for chances at prizes. I'll log on once every couple weeks to keep my account alive with a few spins in hopes that they see the light and reverse some policies. I certainly won't spend the points on raffle tickets to win prizes they also not likely to send and don't really need. Don't drive a car. Wife could care less about some snobby type handbag, I already own a Wii.
NW shoulda sucked up the cost and paid off what they owed. At that time they then would need to decide to keep going with new buisness model or fold. Least if they kept going they'd still have a loyalty base. They blew that out right. So the Forums are getting hammered (they are still up, just to many connections trying to access) and the game will be abandoned. The partner sites must be in a panic. I've never seen anything go from so great to so fantasitcally bad. They've made every possible bad decission since introducing e-cards and stopping wall-mart cards.
The suck up's on the forums who dumped on anyone who had concernes need to apologize to alot of people. Anyone who defends NW now is just stupid or works for them.
YOU PLAY WE PAY is now the noose that will hang them. The months of promises of payments are coming to only have rewards recinded and replaced with crappy points for raffles can only be seen as disgusting way to treat membership.
Just shocking to see a company destroy itself so perfectly.
Date: May 12, 2008 4:09 PM
That's right! No more Netwinner slaves being force fed garbage! Tell them what you really think about how they've treated you! Be truly free and tell them how you feel!
Date: May 12, 2008 4:11 PM
"Just shocking to see a company destroy itself so perfectly."
I love that comment. It's perfection.
I'd also let Netwinner know how you feel on their MySpace pages. If they're still up that is.
Date: May 12, 2008 4:13 PM
well, you can put your opinion on here just like everyone else, but you do not have the right to tell others how they should feel or act, and as far as the phone numbers go ...they are on the internet free for everyone to find, so no law broken there, and I am almost sure there are no personal home numbers on the 4 I have seen so far so why not let them call, it is not a $25.00 gc as someone said earlier some people are owed 100's of $'s and not from playing 24/7 but from some big wins they made on banko and the wheel, they were promised the money for playing (you play we pay) NOT entries....but gc's for money, so they do have a legitimate complaint!
Date: May 12, 2008 4:14 PM
Don't forget about the Spin Reports on youtube. The name is so fitting now, don't you think? I always thought so because it's originated as a term for lying. Guess they didn't know that, LOL. Anyway, leave your feelings on the latest blog entry as well. It'll help people who are considering joining Netwinner know that it's a waste of their time.
Date: May 12, 2008 4:17 PM
To email any Netwinner employee, just put their first name, a dot, then their last name @netwinner.com. Like this- firstname.lastname@netwinner.com. Let them know how you feel!
Date: May 12, 2008 4:20 PM
Wow! Such great and telling comments! And you're right. Internet fraud is under federal jurisdiction. I'd urge you all to call and complain to get this scam taken out of business permanently. This looks like fraud to me, plain and simple.
Date: May 12, 2008 4:22 PM
Oddly enough, I took a screen shot of my account, showing $425 in ecount redemptions "processing." What would one do with this information?
Date: May 12, 2008 4:23 PM
Nothing.. they pretty much have it covered in there terms of service.. they have the right not to pay out for any reason they want..
Date: May 12, 2008 4:24 PM
Nothing spells class action lawsuit like this sort of member treatment. A lovely cherry on the sundae that Netwinner's had coming to it for a long time.
Date: May 12, 2008 4:26 PM
This morning when I noticed the change I filed with the bbb. Netwinner lies and they should be forced to pay every member that has been waiting months for payment and then be shut down. I emailed them complaining and got the generic response we're sorry and doubled points. Whatever I and every Netwinner member want what we have been waiting so long for our money they promised us. I hope everyone files a complaint against Netwinner.
Date: May 12, 2008 4:26 PM
Great! Where do I sign up for the class action suit?
Date: May 12, 2008 4:26 PM
As far as the feds are concerned, lying to people and taking money promised to them is fraud. Don't hide behind your flimsy TOS Netwinner. It won't get you out of the hot water you so richly deserve to be in right now. The TOS doesn't override the laws of the US government.
Date: May 12, 2008 4:27 PM
I wonder if it would be helpful to visit the advertisers websites and post to them or email them about what Netwinner has done to their loyal members. Do you think they would be interested in knowing how many people are no longer going to be viewing their ads, etc?
Date: May 12, 2008 4:27 PM
Take a look at the NetWinner staff.
Go to facebook and type in NetWinner in the search box.
http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=NetWinner
Date: May 12, 2008 4:34 PM
Well when I do that, it says it found no matches.
Date: May 12, 2008 4:35 PM
"I wonder if it would be helpful to visit the advertisers websites and post to them or email them about what Netwinner has done to their loyal members. Do you think they would be interested in knowing how many people are no longer going to be viewing their ads, etc?"
Yep. People should do that too.
The advertisers also deserve to know that almost all of the traffic they've received so far is also false traffic. Advertisers don't appreciate when companies drive traffic to a site for their own gain. The advertisers pay them for each click you know. False traffic generators like Netwinner have been sued for that before and lost.
Date: May 12, 2008 4:35 PM
I do not think its fair to attack every member of NetWinner. Those of you that have worked at a company before should know that all decisions are not made by staff. Decisions are made by executives; the people you are attacking are just messengers. I know the situation is bad but at least have enough respect not to attack people that may happen to work at NetWinner. Im sure they are not all millionaires and some of them are just trying to make a living like you are.
Date: May 12, 2008 4:37 PM
I don't get any results when I type NetWinner into Facebook anymore either. Maybe they changed their name to NetLoser?
Date: May 12, 2008 4:40 PM
No one's "attacking" anyone. Those spin days are over. We're giving our opinions. Nothing more nothing less. We have a right to that even if our money has been taken away from us.
Date: May 12, 2008 4:42 PM
I have been a loyal player of NW for over a year and have followed the rules from day one, but has NW, no they got them selves in a mess and now they are taking it out on the players. They owe me 450.00, I got the 25x5000 the other day and thought wow thats a big one but they know what was coming so thats why I got it. I will file a report with the BBB and do what it takes to get paid and I will not play their site again...There are a lot more games out there to play that are a lot more fun...
Date: May 12, 2008 4:43 PM
Attacking? LOL That's pretty funny.
Ever heard of people expressing their opinions? Maybe you've been a member of the forum staff too long there Random.
People should say what they think here because they can...finally. No one needs you to tell us how to speak, think or feel thanks. We can make up our own minds, thanks!
Date: May 12, 2008 4:43 PM
Posting person phone numbers is not your opinion... that is a personal attack. If you have not done this then I was not speaking to you and you can ignore this and my previous post
Date: May 12, 2008 4:45 PM
I like that there is an open place to discuss what Netwinner has been doing to all of us. It's nice to hear and discuss the truth for once.
Thank you Becky.
Date: May 12, 2008 4:48 PM
At least now you know? Everyone was saying they wanted to know what was up with fulfillment; now you do.
Date: May 12, 2008 4:53 PM
mods are still defending wanna bet they get something for it?
Date: May 12, 2008 4:54 PM
No, I didn't post those.
Anyone can put in their opinion this way. It looks like lots of people are glad the option is available.
Maybe people are doing it because they're tired of being harassed simply for having an opinion on Netwinner's forum. Or being told that they're wrong or they're lied to again. So, I don't blame anyone who has chosen to post comments here this way. I choose to too! lol
Can you give an opinion on the situation at Netwinner, Random while not trying to keep us from giving ours or telling us that ours are wrong? Can you do that?
Date: May 12, 2008 4:56 PM
" drew said:
mods are still defending wanna bet they get something for it?
"
According to some entries on the youtube spin report blog comments, they do. Check out the last few spin reports to see what I mean. That didn't come as a big shock. But it's still nice to finally know the truth.
Date: May 12, 2008 4:58 PM
"Maybe people are doing it because they're tired of being harassed simply for having an opinion on Netwinner's forum. Or being told that they're wrong or they're lied to again. So, I don't blame anyone who has chosen to post comments here this way. I choose to too! lol"
This is true. My husband and I are both leaving messages this way right now because it's fastest too.
Date: May 12, 2008 4:58 PM
well mjp and the rest need to do some sole searching....wondering if "volunteer" mods can get in trouble for perpetuating a fraud if it comes to that
?
Date: May 12, 2008 5:02 PM
That's a fine point of law that you should ask an attorney drew. I'm not one but I wish I was right about now.
I saw that some mods left last year because they didn't want to be involved in lying to people anymore. I wish I could remember what site that was on. Anyway, each were told they didn't want to lie anymore and were ganged up on and lied about by other mods. Each left in their own time. I would too!
Date: May 12, 2008 5:06 PM
would like to find out best way to go about it. i know theres no way probably to get money back but would be nice to stop them from being able to get any more money from people/partners/advertisers. when they owe so many so much.
Date: May 12, 2008 5:09 PM
Nothing like dinging them on Standard & Poor's business credit reporting system either for non-payment I say! You can find it on Google. They shouldn't get to keep their business credit rating if they're not paying!
Date: May 12, 2008 5:13 PM
No these moderators weren't very moderate were they? And they knew damn well what was going on. Shelly used to tell me stuff ahead of time all the time. I told her to stop doing that because she should tell all or tell no one. I turned my i.m. off after awhile because she didn't get it.
Netwinner told them stuff, they told their friends and shut out the forum.
I tried to post that info about a month ago and was banned and lied about for simply trying to tell the truth. The whole Netwinner gang is something else alright. Oh and nice way to be a friend Shelly!
Date: May 12, 2008 5:16 PM
OMG! Brina did the same thing to me! Only I didn't try to post it because she warned me my account would be closed and I'd be banned. She was pretty mean about it too! You told me Brina! Not the other way around??? I'm gona get in trouble for it???
Date: May 12, 2008 5:18 PM
Yeah man, the air is blue around here!
My GF has been playing NetWinner for the last year or so and she is really P.O.'d! She plays every day and has racked up over $200.00 in "winnings". She has been waiting for NW to add money to her eCard since January and she makes it a point to frequently check her NW account to see if her "winnings" have been paid.
Just this morning she checked her account, and the "winnings" were listed as confirmed. Then this afternoon she noticed that she has a bazillion points and none of her unpaid winnings are listed in her NW account.
I've been ducking flying objects and trying to find out what is going on and I ran across this site. At least now we know what is going on. The sad fact is, there ain't squat that any one can do about it.
As I read through the COO's e-mail (BTW, it has not arrived in my GF's in-box yet) it became apparent that NW has pulled a fast one and is going to get away with it.
With that said, I suggest we all take a deep breath and take a step back for a minute and look at this realistically.
First off, from a legal stand point NW doesn't "owe" any one anything. You played for nothing because NW never took any money from you and you won nothing in return.
Secondly, it is obvious that NW has some pretty cunning lawyers on the pay roll. The COO's e-mail is replete with legally phrased evasions and excuses that claim, "Honest folks, it's not OUR fault." "NW is the victim of fraudulent players and an incompetent outsourcer."
Third, even if you do file complaints with the NC Attorney General, the FTC, the BBB, the CIA, the Boy Scouts, and the news media, all NW has to do is pull up stakes, move to another state, and start over.
With that said, I'm going to give you the same advice I gave my GF: Redeem your points and move on. If you win a drawing, fine. If you don't win a drawing, fine. Since you had nothing of any real value in the first place, you haven't really lost anything other than your time (NW will no doubt argue the "games" were purely for your entertainment which they provide free of charge.).
There are a few things that you can take with you from this experience: There ain't no free lunch. If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is. Advertising is a con: All they want is your money, that is why you get bombed with ads while you are playing.
One last thing: My GF did get paid $75.00 (a check for $25.00 and $50.00 on an eCard) in winnings, so this hasn't been a total loss.
Date: May 12, 2008 5:19 PM
I just tried Netwinners forum and get a 505 thing saying it doesn't exist. So is this it? Is this the end and they're just going to keep the money I earned? Are they kidding me!
Date: May 12, 2008 5:26 PM
This is just quite amazing..... It will probably be fruitless, but you bet I'm filing a complaint with the BBB.
I find it sickening, just sickening that a few who were so vocal got their payments in the last week. I wish now I had raised holy hell.
Date: May 12, 2008 5:28 PM
See the statements made in the forum about paying us do make it something to me. So do the prizes showing in dollar amounts on our account pages. You play/we pay is false advertising as well. Once again, my opinion. Does anyone else think the same or no?
Date: May 12, 2008 5:30 PM
lol I got the same email. I suppose it was inevitable given the scammy owners of the site. The sad part is there will still probably be people who play for the "drawings." Hopefully people will stop trusting these scam artists with their time. Go spend it with your family or something, these guys are only out to exploit you.
Date: May 12, 2008 5:31 PM
That paying only the most vocal people thing also splatters hush money all over the place to me too. Someone here posted that they wouldn't agree to those terms. Good for you! Netwinner probably hoped that you'd accept and then not tell anyone what was going on like it looks like they did with their mods and mod's friends.
The more I learn about Netwinner as a company, the more I think those in charge and those that helped them perpetrate their lies belong in jail!
Date: May 12, 2008 5:32 PM
I am so pissed off. I was so expecting that money. Even though I knew there was a chance I wouldn't see it. And yet people are still playing.. GRRr I am speechless I don't know what to say anymore.
Date: May 12, 2008 5:36 PM
Wow I was reading the forum late last night and thought it was weird that there was no comments from Mike or the forum staff about what some players were saying. Now I know why.
Date: May 12, 2008 5:36 PM
The worst part is -- I've been waiting to cash out so that they could get their heads above water. Now, it's those who were trying to help that are getting s*!t on.
I know you can change your TOS, but that affects points earned going forward, not retroactively
Date: May 12, 2008 5:37 PM
Lie and rip people off much Netwinner? Yeah I'd say you do.
Date: May 12, 2008 5:44 PM
I can't believe how they lied. How many times did they tell us, just be patient that everyone netwinner owed would be payed.
How many times did I stand silent while the attack mod dogs tore people up for what is clearly now " the truth ".
The companies whose ads are playing there needs to be contacted.
Too bad this isn't back in the day when people could be tarred, feathered and publicly flogged.
Date: May 12, 2008 5:47 PM
I dont under stand why people think its the mods faults.. they were only telling the info that was told to them. They are only at fault for trying to make the forum fun when the odds were stacked against them. Its the people that own the site that changed things.. not the players and mods.
Date: May 12, 2008 5:49 PM
It's going to be okay--I doubled their bad karma points.
Date: May 12, 2008 5:49 PM
See above. The mods knew.
Date: May 12, 2008 5:50 PM
I AM SOOO PISSED RIGHT NOW I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR NOV 14 ECOUNT AND NOW AFTER ALL THIS TIME THEY SAY YOUR NOT GETTING YOUR MONEY THAT WAS PROMISED
PELASE EMAIL ME IF YOU GUYS WANNA TAKE ACTION AGAINST THEM THIS IS AGAISNT THE LAW IF A BUISNESS DID THIS TO YOU IN REAL LIFE IT WOULD BE A SCAM AND THEY WOULD GO TO JAIL
LETS MAKE SURE THIS BUISNESS DOESNT GET AWAY WITH THIS!!
THEY SCAMMED AND LIED TO US FROM THE BEGENING THEY MADE HUGE PROFITS AND NOW WANNA GET GREEDY
Date: May 12, 2008 5:51 PM
LOL @ Queen of the Universe! =D
Date: May 12, 2008 5:53 PM
Mike is involved in a bunch of these "free lottos" type sites and forums. I think I'll steer clear of those too.
Date: May 12, 2008 5:53 PM
fc if you had left your email I would have emailed you for sure
Date: May 12, 2008 5:56 PM
I think we all need to contact advertizers of netwinner such as Procera, MSN, and CBS broadband, and maybe even Associated Press ad Voxant. I saved the addresses from clicking on the adds. I will be letting them know that Netwinner has cheated us and do they really want to be linked with internet scammers.... they should have paid us and then changed the redemptions.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:02 PM
OK, I have to post because I do not appreciate being attacked as a Mod on Netwinner.
No, us Mods did NOT know what was coming. And I don't know who that is talking about Shelly; but me and Shelly talk every day, and she has NEVER told me anything about Netwinner if she knew anything in advance, which I doubt she did. The same for Brina.
I find it awful that anyone who said they were Shelly's friend would say this crap about her or Brina. Just because someone is mad, you shouldn't take it out on people who don't deserve it.
Y'all can be mad at me if you want; but I think most know that I have never intentionally misled anyone. My mother, may she rest in peace, taught me to live by the Golden Rule, and that is what I do.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:12 PM
IF ANYONE HAS A LIST OF ALL THE ADVERTISERS OR EMAILS OF ADVERTISERS, CAN YOU PLEASE POST THEM
THANKS
Date: May 12, 2008 6:16 PM
mamajen sorry but the fact that you are a mod means theres no reason to beleive the post. nothing personal but i can only judge by who you associate with
Date: May 12, 2008 6:16 PM
We did not know until toda just like all of you were not getting out money either rather you believe it or not. Don't take it out on use because its not our fault. If ypu wanna take it out on someone take it out on netwiner itself. When you personally attack someone because you dont get your way it is wrong we are all adults here why dont we try and act like it,
Date: May 12, 2008 6:17 PM
Look on the bright side of the forum being gone folks. Now no one from netwinner can lie to any of us anymore. They'll have to get real jobs in the real world where that behavior won't be tolerated by their employers. Maybe they'll learn something.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:18 PM
Maybe fc's email is in his/her profile?
Date: May 12, 2008 6:19 PM
Sorry mods but I'm not going to listen to you or even respond to you. You've lied to us too many times before and got paid for it.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:19 PM
After calulating 275 members with their points and awaiting prizes, it came close to $79,000.00 so imagine how many other members who are still owed. So the jackpot for over a million dollars didn't exsist either because that should be in their bank if anyone wins, so this to me is a big BS and the company owes BIG TIME. They got paid for advertising so they should pay the players for spending their time playing their games. Yes Netwinner YOU PLAY AND WE GET PAID.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:20 PM
why are all taking it out on the mods you should be taking it out on netwinner not the mids. Im in the same boat as all of you but sdont blame and hurt the people that have nothing to o with the change
Date: May 12, 2008 6:21 PM
Quote:
Anonymous said:
Sorry mods but I'm not going to listen to you or even respond to you. You've lied to us too many times before and got paid for it.
Hahahaha! Lock the mods posts!
Date: May 12, 2008 6:21 PM
why are all taking it out on the mods you should be taking it out on netwinner not the mids. Im in the same boat as all of you but sdont blame and hurt the people that have nothing to o with the change
Date: May 12, 2008 6:22 PM
I got the bonus points today........Netwinner is fooling itself if it thinks that people are going to continue to play at it's raffle site. Hey let's face it the games are boring for the most part. The only incentive was the dough. Now that that has dried up, it's time for this cyber mercenary to move on. I just can't decide what to do with my points. There is lots of upset people, I could wait and see where the class action, bbb, and other threats take us. But that could take years and cost thousands of lives. I could hope that Netwinner sees the err of it's ways and actually begins to pay people. (Hell won't freeze over fast enough) So for me, I'm leaning toward cashing in the chips for a chance to win a Bissel dust buster, or maybe a cool weight loss boot camp experience. If nothing else, I have enjoyed all the drama associated with all this. Netwinner was too good to be true, too bad we all found out the hard way.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:22 PM
Yah! Kick the lying mods out!
That's tff, lololol
Date: May 12, 2008 6:22 PM
You can think what you want, Drew. You don't know me, as I don't know you. Guilt by association doesn't go over very well in my book, though.
That's like saying Jeffery Dahmer's relatives are all cannabilistic serial killers.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:23 PM
not taking out on mods just saying you lie with the dogs you gonna get fleas....and i dont and have never beleived anything they have said. nothing personal just dont like who the mods took sides with.....
also laughing at the fact that there are still "volenteer" "nonpaid" mods in the chat forum still defending them
lololol
Date: May 12, 2008 6:23 PM
Nobody wants to know you mamaliar! Get lost!
Date: May 12, 2008 6:25 PM
Those mods are wrong and they know it. CYA much girls?
Too late! We know!
hahahaha!
Date: May 12, 2008 6:26 PM
like i said befor are the mods especially the "paid " ones guilty by association if this turns out to be a fraud? we didnt know is a convieniant excuse ...probably not your fault ,,,,but the history of how netwinner does business makes me believe that a good portion of them were more than just" free help"
but then what do i know i actually thought the would pay and then convert to raffle site
Date: May 12, 2008 6:27 PM
I would like to know how much money is REALLY owed to all the players, if Becky can make a colum and we can all put our points in then we can come up with a real total, then we can see if we can bring this to Judge Judy :)
Date: May 12, 2008 6:29 PM
wife was owed about 600 and i was owed about 150.....must be all that cheating they were talking about......at 100 spins pe day sheesh
Date: May 12, 2008 6:29 PM
no one ever said we agree with netwinner fact what they did was wrong. But done take out names its nto right we believe the site just liek you guys did. dont make it personal it hurts people and its not right blame NETWINNER NOT THE MODS WE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT IT!
Date: May 12, 2008 6:30 PM
NOTE : THIS THREAD IS FOR POSITIVE POSTS ONLY!!!:-0
Date: May 12, 2008 6:31 PM
If these mods think they are going to come here and keep lying to us we should really let them know they've got another thing coming.
We got screwed! Stop lying to us! Not even an apology from them for the way they treat us. Just more of the same crap from them!
People have the right to their opinions and for once you can't do anything about it. Deal with it.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:31 PM
NOTE : THIS THREAD IS FOR POSITIVE POSTS ONLY!!!:-0
Date: May 12, 2008 6:31 PM
hahahaha!
Date: May 12, 2008 6:31 PM
At least I'm not afraid to use my REAL name here. Call me names if you want, but I've never lied to anyone.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:33 PM
Ok, I positively thing Netwinner and the mods are full of crap! How's that?
Date: May 12, 2008 6:34 PM
All you (#*$&# should appologise to the mods for dissing them. How would you like mods to come online and tell them you all are a bunch of bitchers on the site.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:34 PM
Your not using your "real name". Your using a forum name. Duh. Nice spin try though. I expect nothing less from you.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:34 PM
I second the motion, get out of here, go back to Net Winner they pay you so go play there.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:36 PM
Gee...a forum name...with JENJEN in it? Gee, I thought anyone could figure out that was short for Jennifer?
Date: May 12, 2008 6:36 PM
"All you (#*$&# should appologise to the mods for dissing them. How would you like mods to come online and tell them you all are a bunch of bitchers on the site."
Oh that's rich! They do it to us all the time. That's a big part of the problem. We have opinions and a right to express them. Deal with it, bitcher. You really need to get out more.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:37 PM
What's your last name, Jennifer? Without that, you're not using your real name. Duh again sweets.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:39 PM
Yah! If you don't want to give out your full name, don't claim to be using your real name. lolol
Date: May 12, 2008 6:40 PM
jen jen is right ...shouldnt bash the mods...shouldnt believe them either...of course i remember a quote from nameless paid employee on the forum site that went something like this ( " when you see me leaving then you know its time to worry")
wonder if his resume is up to date ....and if he gets a bonus for staying....me personaly i couldnt work for a dishonest company that made me lie for them
Date: May 12, 2008 6:40 PM
Go away mods. Nobody wants your lies here.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:42 PM
I'm going to stay wayyyyy over here and let you guys vent (it's good for the soul), but I'd just ask you go to easy on mamajenjen. She was brave enough to face the lynch mob using her NWC forum name and I've found her to be nothing but kind and helpful on the forum.
If you're angry, and no doubt you are, why not put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the people responsible -- the paid guys in the office who came up with this new "business model."
Mods -- if you want to show solidarity with your fellow members, I'm thinking the best way to do that is to quit. Not telling you what to do, just saying that if you want to save face with the other members, that would be one way to do it.
Back into the shadows to lurk and watch from a safe distance,
Becky
Date: May 12, 2008 6:42 PM
If your still working for or Volenteering for NW then I have no pity for any of ya. With them paying Hush money and recinding our Ecounts for points, Accussing people willy nilly of fraud, altering the TOS to suit the failures, telling us to hang in there/keep playing the money is comming, blamming Ecount for not processing cards while Ecount is waiting for funds from NW to send out, and heavily dumping on anyone with concerns.....I would quit publically, beg for forgivness and hope you get your paychecks.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:42 PM
MY EMAIL IS ON THE PROFILE
Date: May 12, 2008 6:42 PM
Just like in any war the MODS do all the dirty work while the big jerk bosses hide and laugh at the mods.....LOL
Date: May 12, 2008 6:44 PM
I can't believe NetWinner has reversed everyone's payments and then are trying to force them to use them for shi*ty raffles. What a load.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:45 PM
becky your right i apologize to any mod who was treated differantly than the naysayers were at the netwinner forum..
im more angry with the paid employees as well
Date: May 12, 2008 6:48 PM
Becky,
Please read above. The mods knew and it's all over the internet. It was put out there way before this stuff happened. So is the part about them getting paid with points for being mods. They deserve everything they're getting here. At least their points are useless now too. Poetic justice I say.
Thanks fc!
Everyone,
Let's all get together and email fc with what he asked for above. That's how to get the ball rolling.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:49 PM
Mamajenjen, this is no place for you right now. There are a lot of very, very angry people here (and everywhere - google netwinner updates) and they are going to take their anger out on you.
You are a very good hearted person...just stop posting here and let it run it's course. It's a real mess. Drawings only was one thing but the reversal on redeemed points is a disastor. This will not end well. :(
Peeps, please don't attack the mods..they don't make policy and I have a sick feeling a bunch of them got stuck holding lots of points. If you are angry then direct your anger towards the company. Comments, phone calls and emails to them are better than angry posts to some nice SAHMs who volutnteer at NW.
Keep your focus.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:51 PM
Netwinner took our money! I suppose this is one of the great things to come they were always lying about. Jerks!
Date: May 12, 2008 6:53 PM
Don't tell us what to think, say or do jetskimax! We're mad at Netwinner and at how we are treated on the forum. We have a right to say so like others have said. Go waggle your finger someplace else.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:53 PM
Who ever gave personal information or photo copies of your ID should worry, they could be for sale because these people can't be trusted.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:54 PM
I called Mike the Mod.....He said that Netwinner owed more than $800,000 to it's members. Basically he said it was either this, or shut down the site. I asked him if the company was afraid of legal action, he said they would be protected by their TOS. He didn't elaborate. I wasn't rude, nor was he. I voice to him that I thought it was a terrible decision, he agreed with the non-payment part, but also said the site would be better in the long run. He still believes that going forward Netwinner is a viable site. Just some insight.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:54 PM
Scam!
Date: May 12, 2008 6:55 PM
If mods dont quit a no-good, lying company that has ONLY its own interests at heart,then there MUST be an incentive !!! Personally ,I couldnt care less wether they quit or not.I just do NOT appreciatte all the lies,I've been told over the past year like," fulfillment is behind due to the company moving .......please be a little more patient and KNOW your $$$ is coming"!!!
Date: May 12, 2008 6:55 PM
Thanks, Becky.
I think people telling me what to do is a little farfetched. I am my own person, I am an adult, and if I choose to stay on the forum and make contests for any players who might choose to stay, I will do so. I am not Netwinner, nor an employee. I am just a person who likes what I do there.
If you all want to stay here and publicly lynch me, sobeit. I am not asking for anyone's pity. I posted here knowing full well the fallout of my actions. I knew most would attack me out of anger for Netwinner.
But I could not sit here and let someone attack my fellow teammates for something I know to be false. I'll gladly throw myself into the line of fire to do so.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:56 PM
" Canuck said:
Who ever gave personal information or photo copies of your ID should worry, they could be for sale because these people can't be trusted.
"
Oh man! Check your credit reports people and do it often! How awful!
Date: May 12, 2008 6:56 PM
So if someone had ever won the Jackpot (wich I even now doubt was possible at all) they'd been SOL.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:56 PM
Hold on, my GF is (was) a moderator, and I know for a fact she did not know before today what was happening. The company has been reassuring them that payments would be forth coming....was she naive, I'm afraid so...did she intentionally perpetuate fraud, absolutely not. Honestly, she feels pretty slimy herself today. And the majority of the moderators are not paid anything, they simply put their faith in a company that has now shown themselves to be nothing but scum. It's my GF's hope that the other moderators will join her and walk away. Netwinner betrayed ALL their members and we both hope that legal actions will be filed against them.
Date: May 12, 2008 6:58 PM
martyrjenjen
You're so full of crap. None of this effects you personally. You don't use your real name, no one knows who you are so you can't be held accountable. No one can throw you under any bus. You're so full of yourself!
Date: May 12, 2008 6:58 PM
petey if you gf does walk away i applaud her....its a shame because netwinner is a fun site that would work if it had honest and inteligant people working for it.
Date: May 12, 2008 7:01 PM
PEOPLE...If you have given NetWinner any information or faxed photo ID's check with the credit bureau, they could be up for sale. A company that changes their rules and askes for personal information can easily say that they lost the information and can be sold and used to ruin your CREDIT.
Date: May 12, 2008 7:01 PM
Well...unfortunately some of my predictions and thoughts were right on the mark..The more "unnetwinner Love" ones I only communicated with freinds privately because there was NO way I could Ever have posted them on the forum.
I imagine there will be lawsuits involved with Netwinner and the Mods who categorically refused to stop saying "You WILL be paid" are probably wondering what will happen to them when this happens..I ask" was whatever you were given in return for the undying faith in netwinner really worth it?"Now the pretences can stop cant they? You may not of been paid Outright but there was some form of "rewards" involved..of that there is NO doubt.
Where do we "members" go from here though?News of this will spread across the Net like wildfire and it will Not be long before Netwinner is gone completely.
I for one do NOT believe the "fraud" scam excuse at all.I FIRMLY believe that this a just as case of (Like a pyramid scheme) Netwinner was making money hand over fist as were the ones who got in on the ground floor.Now the money is Not rolling in like water and the ones on the bottom tier(US) are left holding the bag.
Emailing the advertisers may be a good option but WOM is always the best way to get a message across.
Date: May 12, 2008 7:02 PM
That's right! Our money earned is gone. Who cares about mod martyrs who are going to try and defend that.
You mods are something else. I won't say what because I don't use that sort of language.
Date: May 12, 2008 7:05 PM
You are absolutely right drew, it could have been a great site. As for my GF, she was finished as soon as she read the release. It's deplorable what they've done, and we are both now eating the crow being fed to her. I posted only to say please be careful when attacking the moderators...no doubt there were some who knew in advance what was coming, most of them did not. That is all we will say and we will now return to our plates........
Date: May 12, 2008 7:06 PM
This is beyond Judge Judy, considering those are cases in small claims courts and not class action. We need to act by means of filing complaints with the BBB, NC DOJ, FTC and local news media in Charlotte. In addition, a class action lawsuit in Federal Court might be an option, considering Netwinner not only breached the TOS in effect at the time of redemptions, but willfully misled its members into believing we would ever get paid.
Date: May 12, 2008 7:08 PM
"So if someone had ever won the Jackpot (wich I even now doubt was possible at all) they'd been SOL."
Or Netwinner would claim someone won it to try to make themselves look like they pay when in fact they didn't. I wouldn't put it past them.
"And the majority of the moderators are not paid anything, they simply put their faith in a company that has now shown themselves to be nothing but scum."
Yes they were paid. In the forum of free points for posting. If she didn't tell you that because she didn't think it mattered, it does. Those points used to be as good as cash. That equals getting paid.
"Honestly, she feels pretty slimy herself today."
Well at least someone is admitting that. No hard feelings against your girlfriend because at least she had the guts to admit that instead adding flames to the fire.
Date: May 12, 2008 7:08 PM
well said petey. sorry if attacking all the mods is how its coming across. but realize that the mods ...alot of them...were like stormtroopers on the forum site at netwinner when people dared to question the company....remembering the quote now "dont drink the kool-aid"
Date: May 12, 2008 7:08 PM
It's OK, "Anonymous"; You can call me anything you want. Venting is good for the soul.
Date: May 12, 2008 7:08 PM
I am also one who is very upset with netwinner. Can anyone please list the companies we can email to let them know what netwinner has done. Do you think emailing the companies will do any good?
Date: May 12, 2008 7:10 PM
Since I can't get into the forums at all today.... Can someone just tell me if Mike is out there saying he had no idea???? Slimeball.
Date: May 12, 2008 7:10 PM
WOW, it would be awesome if you people put this much effort into getting real jobs instead of waiting for handouts
-just a thought
Date: May 12, 2008 7:11 PM
i believe he didnt know till friday...but i could be wrong..thought i saw that in chat over there
Date: May 12, 2008 7:12 PM
Quote: and local news media in Charlotte
You are so right! I'm going to look up the numbers for news stations there and post what I find.
Date: May 12, 2008 7:13 PM
if you get the local outlets in charlotte see if becky will let you post them id love to contact them myself
Date: May 12, 2008 7:13 PM
I don't need your permission to say anything mamamartyr. Remember, this isn't your forum.
Date: May 12, 2008 7:14 PM
crawl back in your hole ANON. I have a real job. I just expect to paid for my free time that I put into this site after being reassured for 7 months they would fork over what was owed.
Date: May 12, 2008 7:16 PM
Waiting for handouts?? WOW, it would be awesome if someone wouldn't hide behind an anonymous label to attack people they don't know, all to stand up for a company that makes promises and then fails to keep their promises...in other words, operates a scam on people who in good faith watched ads while playing games thinking they would be paid for watching said ads.
Date: May 12, 2008 7:16 PM
"
mamajenjen said:
It's OK, "Anonymous"; You can call me anything you want. Venting is good for the soul.
"
No apology from her about telling us she's using her real name but she'll act like she runs this place. You can ... honey with that logic.
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